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<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Derek<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Was your X700 running WSM or Fireware? I agree with everything
you said, assuming you are talking about WSM. Fireware has been rock-solid for
me. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>We have 2 X750e firewalls we use inhouse, one at our office and
one at our co-lo, both running Fireware Pro. They each have upwards of 40
site-to-site VPNs on them, connecting to other watchguard edge and core
firewalls, sonicwalls, ciscos, and even a Linksys or 2. We have VOIP going
across VPNs with no issues. One of my firewalls has current up-time of over 9
months, and it is under heavy stress, with 7 of the 8 ports in use, multiple
internet connections, static routes, and a tremendously complicated ruleset. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>WSM did require reboots for some config changes. I don’t
know why. But the X700 is almost at end-of-life now, and everything they
currently sell has Fireware, which only requires reboots for firmware upgrades.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Fireware supports SSL VPN, which is about the easiest VPN app I
have ever used. All it asks for is URL, username and password. It does the
rest. It is similar to almost every SSL VPN client I have ever seen. Theirs
is based on OpenVPN <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As you see from my previous message, I 100% agree on the edge
units. Uptime on those is pretty sad, and they start doing really strange
things if they are not rebooted. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org [mailto:discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Derek Schwab<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> IT Discussion Forum<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [itdiscuss] Firewalls<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Cisco has an application that connects to the firewall and gives
you real-time monitoring. It’s included with all of their
firewalls. Sonicwall’s Viewpoint app is really nice, probably one
of the best monitoring apps out there, but it’s not real time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>As far as watchguard goes:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I think their
management program is a huge pain to deal with. Yes, it’s nice to be
able to edit a config offline and upload it, but do I really need a clunky
program to do that? I can do the same thing with my Cisco config
files in about ¼ the time.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Certain changes,
liking moving an IP from the WAN to DMZ in transparent mode require a
reboot. Why? There’s no reason any change other than a
firmware upgrade should require a reboot.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>We have an X700
(currently in the process of being taken out of service) that randomly
stops passing certain types of traffic – most commonly FTP is seems.
This requires a reboot to fix.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Their client VPN
app is horrible. It never worked reliably for us and was a big pain to
configure and use. I’ll give bonus points to Sonicwall here,
they have a really nice VPN client. Cisco’s is still the best, IMO,
though.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Site to site VPN
is really flakey. We used it for a while for some teleworkers with the
“Edge” boxes at their homes. Tunnels would bounce up and down
all the time. Their phones were pretty much unusable due to that.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The Edge units
lock up and have to be rebooted about once a month. We had 4 of them
in service, and a couple of different models and they all did it.
The Core series seems to go about 3-4 months between lock ups, but it has
to be rebooted periodically.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
</ol>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I’ve worked with several different firewall vendors and have
never had so many issues with a single product line.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>-Derek<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org [mailto:discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Jeffrey Thompson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> IT Discussion Forum<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [itdiscuss] Firewalls</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Actually I think an application gives you real time
monitoring that can't be accomplished any other way. I actually think
that having the Watchguard Monitor and Admin as an application is a plus and
not a negative. I also would be curious to know what qualifies Watchguard
as "one of the worst firewalls out there".<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Nov 12, 2008, at 10:33 AM, Kevin Brunson wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Wow, really? Worst firewall out there? Just because
it has separate management software or is there some operational reason? </span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><a
href="mailto:discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org">discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org</a> [<a
href="mailto:discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org">mailto:discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org</a>]<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Derek Schwab<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Wednesday, November
12, 2008 9:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>IT Discussion Forum<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [itdiscuss]
Firewalls</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Watchguard still works the same way. In my opinion, that has got to
be one of the worst firewalls out there.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Sonicwall isn’t bad and I would say it’s great for a
small office environment. Sonicwall definitely doesn’t seem to be an
enterprise-ready device. I’ve been using them over 6 years at a previous
job and at some clients I do consulting work for now. I must say that the
stability and reliability leaves a lot to be desired.</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Juniper – Never personally used them, but know several people
who have and have heard good things. Saw someone mention pricing on
Juniper - their pricing isn’t that bad – in the same neighborhood
as Sonicwall, actually a little cheaper last time I looked.</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I’m personally a big fan of the Cisco ASA series. They
are rock solid, relatively easy to use, and one of the cheaper options out
there. If you compare the initial purchase price and yearly support cost of an
ASA 5510 to the other equivalent boxes from other vendors (watchguard x700 or
Sonicwall 3060), the Cisco is actually SIGNIFICANTLY less expensive, which is
just the opposite of what you might expect from them.</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>-Derek</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><a
href="mailto:discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org">discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org</a> [<a
href="mailto:discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org">mailto:discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org</a>]<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></b><a
href="mailto:blloyd@buskercom.com">blloyd@buskercom.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Wednesday, November
12, 2008 10:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="mailto:discuss@itdiscuss.org">discuss@itdiscuss.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [itdiscuss]
Firewalls</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m working to replace an old Watchguard that is no longer
supported. The main thing I don’t like about it is that you have to
load software on a PC to manage the configuration. I would much rather
just login to the device itself. Have they changed that at all?</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:navy'>Bill
Lloyd</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='color:navy'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:navy'><br>
IT Manager</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><image001.jpg><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>2567 Athens Hwy.</span><span
style='color:black'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>Gainesville, GA 30507</span><span
style='color:black'><br>
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>Phone: 770-417-1604<br>
Fax: 770-417-1747<br>
Cell: 404-379-6963</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><em><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:navy'><a
href="mailto:blloyd@buskercom.com">blloyd@buskercom.com</a></span></em><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><a
href="mailto:discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org">discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org</a> [<a
href="mailto:discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org">mailto:discuss-bounces@itdiscuss.org</a>]<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Jeffrey Thompson<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Wednesday, November
12, 2008 9:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>IT Discussion Forum<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [itdiscuss]
Firewalls</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Watchguard has done well for
network firewall and web filter for me.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>On Nov 12, 2008, at 9:32 AM, Lee,
Jason wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think I would disappoint those around CITRT (Mainly Justin
Moore) if I didn’t say Sonicwall’s lineup has been rock solid and
cost effective for us.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>- jason</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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